Dart 15 Forums

Hi All

Thinking of rigging the jib up tomorrow,question time,
1 Is there a rule that says I have to use the furler
2 Is there any pit falls in not using a furler
3 What are the advantages of using jib (other than the additional sail area)

Look forward to your comments

Simon 1970

Hi Simon
1/ Not to my knowledge.
2/ If the wind gets to much.
3/ For the larger frame I think it is an advantage.

simon wrote:Hi All

Thinking of rigging the jib up tomorrow,question time,
1 Is there a rule that says I have to use the furler
2 Is there any pit falls in not using a furler
3 What are the advantages of using jib (other than the additional sail area)

Look forward to your comments

Simon 1970

Simon,
Adding to Erling's comments. The other advantages to using the jib are
a) It is a big wind indicator. I found it much easier to sail with a jib when I first started as I was used to sailing Enterprises and Graduates and sailing with a jib was more similar. As you come from another unarig boat (Phantom) you may not notice this.
b) tacking is quicker - you can back the jib a little when tacking and it makes it much quicker.
On the downside
c) you have to reach and tack downwind or the jib collapses in the lee of the mainsail. Bear away until the jib is on the verge of collapsing but you cannot run downwind.
d) you cannot point as high as a well sailed unarig boat. You gain nothing up wind for the extra sail area. The biggest gain is on reaches.

It would be good to chat to Robin the Gadget at Stewartby. He is probably about your weight and he swears by sailing with the jib.
Cheers
Bob
PS The furler is really useful when coming in, and in launching and recovery. It stops the jib flapping during lunch too. Otherwise you either have to drop the jib or capsize the boat on shore.

The other advantage of using the jib is that you can legally use the trapeze in race mode which makes the boat even faster on the reaches and saves all that laborious hiking out stuff which is good for a little un like me, especially in a good blow - yahoo!!!

The cost! I reckon that adding a jib kit would cost £600+. Besides the sail itself, there are the furlers, blocks, wires and sundry bits. No doubt someone will give us a more accurate figure than my guesstimate.

Again, I think the Sprint should be marketed as a basic una-rig boat, but with optional extras. Not everyone wants all the extras. These might include road trailer, big wheel trolley, jib kits etc. To me, £7995 sounds better than £8595.

Andrew Hannah wrote:The cost! I reckon that adding a jib kit would cost £600+. Besides the sail itself, there are the furlers, blocks, wires and sundry bits. No doubt someone will give us a more accurate figure than my guesstimate.

Again, I think the Sprint should be marketed as a basic una-rig boat, but with optional extras. Not everyone wants all the extras. These might include road trailer, big wheel trolley, jib kits etc. To me, £7995 sounds better than £8595.

The boat does not seem to be available from new at the moment, although we are hopeful for the near future. Most boats currently being sailed have been bought second-hand by their current owners. Thankfully a good number of these came with sprint kits included. The price guide on this website does not clearly discriminate between una-only and sprint-included prices but it is second-hand prices that count for most of us. The new price is comparable to many other popular racing craft and a good deal less than some of similar speed (505?). It must be possible to negotiate a discount for the basic, pared-down version but whether it should be marketed as such is a different question.

Punters joining the class from outside (either from another cat or from a monohull, or even fairly new to sailing) expect there to be a jib because that would be (even a little bit) faster and speed is likely to factor in their decision. The boat looks better with a jib, which is good for the pretty little craft that it is. Many people like to know they have a boat they can do more with, should they wish. The fact that most people sail una-rig is immaterial to attracting newcomers.

The range of prices available for good second-hand craft in this class is quite wide and the old boats can be very competitive as well as improved in stages. £8595 will be for those who are definitely committed and want more. If money is tight there are much cheaper ways of getting a very good boat than paying £7995, including using the very good refurbishment services available. It is doubtful that down-marketing the class would do any favours for anyone.

What's up Robert - did you forget your harness the day this picture was taken?

As for the Sprint kit I think this is the real beauty of the SP15 and many a second hand boat (mine included) had sprint kit which was never used but invaluable when you're selling on. I doubt the few hundred £'s would make any difference whatsoever in a decision to buy.

Mark Aldridge wrote:What's up Robert - did you forget your harness the day this picture was taken?

Not quite enough wind on that leg at that time Mark, but: I'm on your case

Wow - Who's that handsome chap in front??

Instow - what a wonderful place!

The original thread was to find out what benefits I (being on the larger side, 17.5 stone) would gain by using the jib, im looking for more speed, not worrying about the cost as the jib sits in my box doing nothing.

Simon 1970

Do it Simon. It's easy. Furler/ no furler - no problem!

simon wrote:The original thread was to find out what benefits I (being on the larger side, 17.5 stone) would gain by using the jib, im looking for more speed, not worrying about the cost as the jib sits in my box doing nothing.

Simon 1970

Simon - The boat will only go so fast, but the jib should offer better acceleration and you will notice a distinctly different feel upwind with the jib driving the bows through waves rather than bouncing over them. You'll hold more power in general out on the wire, but you're going to need a really good wind.

On a really windy reach when most folk are pitchpoling you may find with your handsome figure perched on the rear beam you can hold more power and therefore boat speed, but when it does go wrong I'd like to be there to see the splash!

As mentioned, you'll be sailing upwind more freely and it's a different art to keep boat speed and compromise pointing. Downwind you need to keep the gybes up (just as you do in the bar!) to keep the jib telltales flying so it's no longer just a dead run.

Overall it's great fun and in my opinion I prefer to sail the boat with the jib and by the way the Sport Nat's is a great event and somewhat different to the unarig Nat's. It is however more hassle and being lazy I tend only to bother for the Sport Nat's. Another reason for my laziness is that very few people can really make the two sail format pay on handicap against a well sailed unarig boat. I'm fairly sure that if I raced myself in the two formats I'd be quicker unarig. The longer the reaches the more the chance of success.

So - I'd say give it a go but not against unarig 15's and get along to the Sport Nat's where you'll see us all falling off our trapezes!!

The furler can be very useful to launch/land and also stops the mast getting bashed to bits and scarred in the process. You're bettor off with a lighter jib sheet and flying leads/blocks. Be sure to have a single piece forestay for unarig sailing and you'll need the top strop and joint gubbins with furler for the jib - I highly recommend you do this bit!!!

I have never sailed in Sport mode and so have removed foot loops from my previous boats.

Before I do the same again on ny latest boat, which foot loops are needed when "Sporting"- just the back one or the middle as well? I presume the forward loop is used when sailing two up.

Robin.

None of them are any use at all apart from helping pull the boat up the slipway. You're better off removing them all and having some inch wide grippy tape on the gunwhale. If you're really keen you may find use in the stern most loop on a wild trapezing reach, but I've just got grippy tape on the rear beam top area and to the rear towards the transom - but you're not going to use it that often.

You'll find hiking without the toe loops is much improved too.

Speak to Brian @ Windsport or Steve @ SS Marine for the tape and to get the toe loops removed properly and have a go at Sprinting..