Round The Ends Rule

[Charles]

At my club we normally start using a transit and inner & outer distance marks.

We have been having a discussion about round the ends rules for special land based starts, where the line is between a pole on the shore & a buoy.

As there is only 1 end, can we reasonably apply the rule?

What do other clubs do?

Thanks

[Jaycb]

They do this quite often at Seaford if they're short of marker bouys. To avoid an "infinite" start line if there's a big turnout they sometimes post the safety RIB a bit further out, roughly in line, but you don't really need this.
They've got a bit painted black and orange triangle bolted to the mast in front of the club's race control tower, then another triangle on a moveable mast/tripod thing that someone knocked up. The race officer has this placed down on the beach. The startline is thus the imaginary line formed by the two of them. I've never had problems with this and in fact I find it easier than having a buoy as you only have to look in one direction. As you can imagine though, on a really busy day the view of the two beach transits can get blocked momentarily, especially if someone fluffs the start and has to come about. For this reason they try to use a bathing buoy as another mark for the startline if they can, but this depends very much on wind direction.

[Bob Carter]

Corr,
It would be counter productive to have a "round one end rule". Think of the boat which was over the line at the shore end of the line. He would have to cut across the whole fleet to get back round the (other) end. Better to stick with the "P" flag and let them dip the line.
Cheers
Bob

[George Stephen]

Charles,

If there are lots of boats, you put another buoy close inshore as an inner distance mark - creating the 2nd end. It can be very close to shore if water depth permits as you only need a couple of boat lengths for gybing round.

If only a few boats are starting you can dispense with the inner mark. Boats which go over the line during the last minute have to keep clear of the boats that started legally as they go to round the outer distance mark. They will generally lose out considerably. This can be preferable to using the P flag with the attendant risks of T-bone prangs as boats over the line accelerate on bearing away to reach back behind the line to start.

[Bob Carter]

At my club we normally start using a transit and inner & outer distance marks.

We have been having a discussion about round the ends rules for special land based starts, where the line is between a pole on the shore & a buoy.

As there is only 1 end, can we reasonably apply the rule?

What do other clubs do?

Thanks

Hi Charles,
Since you woke me up with an Email note I have the following comments to make:
- quite a few clubs use shore based starts and all the ones I know use a transit system. These include Marconi, Seasalter, Gurnard, Instow, Sandwich Bay etc
- very few of them (if any) have an inner distance mark. It is just left to the helmsman to decide if he plans to go aground. Quite often the start is a long way off a windward start and reaching starts are pretty common (dipping the line or round the the end - is a bit tricky on a reaching start - you just have to get the timing right)
- I cannot recollect if any of these use the 'I' flag start (round the ends), but I suspect that none of them do.
- dipping the line can be a problem but bearing down on a down wind boat is dealt with by the RRS and has to be dealt with by education of the sailors and protests if required. I know that the Sprint 15 Nationals uses the I flag procedure as it is a good practice less prone to problems but we always have open water windward start. Most of our other events use 'P' flag starts.
- in Grafham Club racing there is no round the end rule even in mixed fleet handicap events - we do have more space than Halifax. Some years ago Grafham used shore based starts for the Wednesday evening races. We had 3 permanently located transits and the race officer would select the best line for the wind and would indicate the transit to be used by hoisting a flag up it.

For further info I suggest that you ask
1) Robin Leather (Gurnard)
2) Steve Willis (Seasalter)
3) Jenny Ball (Marconi)
4) John or Terry Postlethwaite (Beaver) - they often use committee boat starts but I think not always. In common with you is that they have very little space and they sail catamarans and monos in the same handicap start.
I can give you their Email addresses if they do not respond here.
Cheers
Bob

[KarlPountney]

Charles,

Let me chuck my two pennyworth in.

The round the ends rule (I Flag rule) gets discussed a lot by race officers. Some like it, others don't. In Open meetings I tend to use the I flag as one last chance before black since it naturally penalises OCS boats by forcing them to spend more time restarting than they would with a 'P' flag.

I've debated this with other race officers at seminars and conferences in the past. I believe that, while within the rules to do so, the I flag rule should not be applied when you have a shore start. The rule itself applies to boats who are OCS having crossed the LINE or one of its EXTENSIONS (note plural) within one minute of the start after which they must cross to the pre-start side of just one extension before starting.

The rule implies that the line is in open water where boats can navigate both ends and where helms have a clear choice of which 'end to round' regardless of the point of sail they are on, line bias, etc. At our club the typical wind direction is such that on shore starts the favoured end is always the pin-end with boats heading into shore on starboard. It's bad enough with boats tacking-off on to port at the shore obstruction but if earlier than that, boats needed to tack off on to port to round the pin end then I think starts would be more chaotic than needed. Yes, such a situation would penalise the OCS boat some more and may act as a deterrent to those who like to take chances at the start but my decision to use the I flag as RO would increase the risk of collision and that it's just not worth it. Line dipping when one end is ashore is probably OK regardless of the size of fleet. In fleets with lots of boats, make the line longer and as unbiased as you can get it to the next mark whether to windward or reaching.

On wednesday evenings at Stewpot where we have mainly shore starts we have a kind of modified Z flag. Return and restart (like P) and exonerate yourself or continue and have a 20% scoring penalty applied.

[robinl]

Hello All,

At Gurnard we use shored based starts. The Race Officer has a choice of two transits to use although they have been know to lay temporary outer distance marks on occasion.

We only ever 'duck the line' if over. On busy starts, you may have to sail upwind (slowly) to let the fleet pass before you can safely start your duck. It generally means that the cat fleets are perceived as being 'line shy' by the more manoeuvrable monohull fleets. Still, can't blame them for their ignorance!

Hope this helps.

Regards

Robin

[WaveyDavey]

At Marconi we almost always use our shore-based race hut. It has a fixed start line defined by a transit between a triangle on the hut and a post on the foreshore.

Dinghies start between the shore and a distance mark, so there's only one end to their line. Due to our higher speed and lower manoeuvrability, cats start on the same transit but further offshore beyond the moored yachts, between inner and outer distance buoys.

In both cases I don't think we have ever applied the round the ends rule, and I don't recall dipping back behind the line in club racing having caused any problems. In fact, hacking off across the fleet to one or other end of the line could be more hazardous in our our case. In a Northerly breeze (blowing down the line) you would be trying to beat to windward with a pack of beam-reaching boats that weren't over the line bearing down on you. If a cat did have to go around the end and chose the inner distance mark that would put them back within the moored boats that we're trying to avoid.

Our start lines are fairly long relative to the number of boats, and that may be a key factor. If there's a bit of room I think its safer for a boat to dip, or even turn a full 180 and sail directly back to the line then have to sail to the ends. Also, club racing (rightly or not) tends to be slightly less 'intense' than opens and nationals, so in my experience people with right of way tend to give quarter more readily (especially for a noob doing there best) and people dipping or returning to the line keep clear and don't attempt anything too insane.