Adjustable tiller extension

[Crazysurf]

I am looking to do the Sport Nationals next year (as it is nice and local) but am wondering why we cannot have an adjustable tiller extension?????

Surely an adjustable one is of no performance benefit (heavier) and it appears to me that at £62.47 for an adjustable one and £41.26 plus £43.91 (short and long) we are not really creating a cost related benefit (prices from windsport). I would certainly prefer an all for one, one for all, musketeer solution.

At Shanklin we run two up and sport races back to back so you need to change - a right pain. Not for me as I don't currently have either a trapeze harness or a different extension hence the enquiry.

There is another alternative to rule change - would anyone protest? My understanding is that others are stretching the rules.

[Andrew Hannah]

I acknowledge that I am a bit of a stick-in-the-mud on these issues. But I'm against any move that puts up the cost of a new boat. They are expensive enough as it is. Another £20 on the price helps bump up the price even more. How about graphics? Should they be added? That would be another £60, thank you very much.

My view is that Sprints should be marketed as una-rigs. Anything else, from jib kits, to longer tiller extensions, to big wheel trollies, to be regarded as optional extras. If we keep the lid on prices, we might get the boats selling again.

[Bob Carter]

I am looking to do the Sport Nationals next year (as it is nice and local) but am wondering why we cannot have an adjustable tiller extension?????

Surely an adjustable one is of no performance benefit (heavier) and it appears to me that at £62.47 for an adjustable one and £41.26 plus £43.91 (short and long) we are not really creating a cost related benefit (prices from windsport). I would certainly prefer an all for one, one for all, musketeer solution.

At Shanklin we run two up and sport races back to back so you need to change - a right pain. Not for me as I don't currently have either a trapeze harness or a different extension hence the enquiry.

There is another alternative to rule change - would anyone protest? My understanding is that others are stretching the rules.

Hi Crazysurf.
Adjustable tillers are currently judged as not in Class. This position was taken some time ago on the basis of cost. They cost much more than the basic tiller and we understand break more frequently and we try to limit alternatives to minimum cost and no performance advantage . If you want this to be reconsidered for Sport mode you need to submit a written proposal that is seconded to the next AGM which will be in August next year. The proposal must be circulated to the membership before the AGM which means it needs to be included in the Spring edition of NewSprint. Thus it will not be in class for the Sport Nationals in May. Sounds a bit risky to me to chance not being protested - especially if you do well with out of class equipment.
Cheers
Bob
PS If you propose to use the same adjustable tiller extension in standard mode it is more serious. This is because it can be adjusted to be longer than the standard tiller. This is a definite unfair advantage as in light winds going downwind you can extend it and go further forward than with a standard tiller. This enables you to shift your weight further forward than with a standard length tiller and hence further reduce your wetted area. It is highly unlikely that this would ever be passed as in class. I hope you understand this point.

[Neil Parkhurst]

I agree with Bob but what is the maxiumum tiller extension length? Is there a minimum length or do they all have to be same size. As far as I am aware from the 3 Nationals I have done, nobody has looked at the boats.

Loosley talking about "rudders" has anyone got the adjustable units for the ends of the cross bar? If they have do they use them and are they any good?

[Martin Searle]

I agree with Bob but what is the maxiumum tiller extension length? Is there a minimum length or do they all have to be same size. As far as I am aware from the 3 Nationals I have done, nobody has looked at the boats.

Loosley talking about "rudders" has anyone got the adjustable units for the ends of the cross bar? If they have do they use them and are they any good?

I have an adjustable cross bar since I snapped the old one last year when I raised the rudders a little too energetically one day (only one end adjusts btw) and I have adjusted it to suit my boat (I suspect my rudders are quite badly out of alignment because I have a bent pintle on the transom, I have a new set of fittings for both hulls but never got around to fit them). They correct minor alignment problems which in theory should make it go faster but for significant ones then you may need to fiddle around with the rudder itself to sort it (Others here like Brian, Bob, Steve Sawford and Steve Willis will know more than me about this techcy stuff! ).

Also I rarely swap to my longer tiller extension when sport'ing because a) its quite embedded into an awkward to get at shelf at the club and b) Its a bit too long for me I find and I get myself in knots with it but I did have to replace the end fitting where you hold it and a bright yellow golf ball fitted the bill remarkably well

Martin S.

[simon]

Hi

The previous owner of 1970 cut the tiller extension down in lenght by about 3 inches, I found this out after laying a new one along side it ( the second one game with the boat). The same also applies to the sporting tiller extention. What are the official lenghts.

Simon 1970

[Bob Carter]

I agree with Bob but what is the maxiumum tiller extension length? Is there a minimum length or do they all have to be same size. As far as I am aware from the 3 Nationals I have done, nobody has looked at the boats.

Loosley talking about "rudders" has anyone got the adjustable units for the ends of the cross bar? If they have do they use them and are they any good?

Hi Neil,
The correct tube length for standard mode tiller is 1.666M and for Sport mode is 2.350M. The Sport mode can be longer (up to 2.440) if you want. Yes we are a trusting lot and don't do much scrutineering - it needs to be right though - especially as you are starting to win.
Cheers
Bob

[Crazysurf]

Thank you Bob for the explanation. However, maybe you can clarify the length situation?

In the rules I can only find reference to a maximum length of 2.44m, nothing else at all. On the Windsport website the std one is listed as 1605mm and the "SP15 race" as 1870mm.

Thanks in advance, Sean

[Bob Carter]

Thank you Bob for the explanation. However, maybe you can clarify the length situation?

In the rules I can only find reference to a maximum length of 2.44m, nothing else at all. On the Windsport website the std one is listed as 1605mm and the "SP15 race" as 1870mm.

Thanks in advance, Sean

Hi Sean,
Yes you are right. The only dimension in the rules is the maximum length for the Sport mode tiller so my dimension of 2350mm is advisory. 1870mm is decidedly on the short side - no good if you want to move forward when trapezing. I think this will be a Dart 18 tiller. The standard Sprint 15 tiller is not defined in the rules - it is controlled by the 15 boat rule. When I put 1666mm I did think about rounding it down to 1660 ( I do not know the actual manufacturing length with tolerances). The Laser Centre certainly used to supply tiller lengths of 1660+/-10 and not as short as 1605. Perhaps Brian can illucidate. Not that it is critical, but I'm interested to hear why it has changed.
Cheers
Bob

[Robert]

Following the above points, it must be "out of class" to sail unarig with a sport tiller extension (not that I would want to). I've chopped a bit off my sport extension as too long is too cumbersome and too heavy when swinging the extension during tacks.

[Brian Phipps]

Hi All, there is no official maxium length of the tiller extension, the minium manufacturing length is 1600mm which, when the rudders are straight, means the tiller extension just clears the shroud wire when you move forward in the boat.
As mentioned there is no rule to say you cannot use a longer tiller extension ie a singlehanded unit if you wish when sailing mono rig, you just have to put up with the activity of passing it around the shroud.
The Dart 18 standard tiller extension supplied by Windsport is 2000mm which some sailors cut down to the minium length of 1854mm.
So you can buy from Windsport
a) Std Sprint15 extension 1630mm including fittings
b) Std Dart 18 extension 2030mm including fittings. (Suggested Sp15 single-handed extension , depending on your height!!!) which you can also cut to a shorter length
c) Std Dart 18 singlehanded extension 2430mm including fittings, which you can cut to a shorter length.

Reference material and wall thickness. The tube wall thickness of the material was carefully considered when first manufactured. A thinner wall thickness could of been seleceted for lightness but during trials these there found to bend or get damaged too easily. The thicker wall, 16swg, gave a good compromise between durability, weight and grip. Std tiller extensions supplied by many marine companies use a much thinner walled tube which is less durable and more prone to breaking or creasing if you try and straighten them.

With reference adjustable tiller extensions, by their nature they are not as durable as one piece units and are only adjustable while either section is straight. We do sell them as a Sprint 15 none class legal item, to those who do not race, but we look to point out their short falls. Most sailors come back to the std tube eventually.
For your information, over the years F18, spitfire etc cat sailors have moved away from adjustable tiller extensions, relying on a stick which does not adjust inadvertently and is reliable in all conditions.
Hope that straightens things out!
Brian

[Robert]

I've found the rungs of a ladder handy for straightening things out!

[Bob Carter]

Hi All, there is no official maxium length of the tiller extension, the minium manufacturing length is 1600mm which, when the rudders are straight, means the tiller extension just clears the shroud wire when you move forward in the boat.
As mentioned there is no rule to say you cannot use a longer tiller extension ie a singlehanded unit if you wish when sailing mono rig, you just have to put up with the activity of passing it around the shroud.
Brian

Hi Brian,
Very interesting but it is not the way that the Sprint 15 Association (or I believe the Dart 18 UKDA) applies the rules. Many aspects of the boat are not defined in the rules (e.g Mast height, sail area, indeed almost any dimension of the boat) but each boat must be the same as 15 boats measured at random. So this also applies to the tiller. It is not permissable to sail a Sprint 15 with for example a 2.3M tiller unless sailing in Sport mode. Some time ago before the Laser Centre gave up marketing the boat they started supplying the Dart 18 tiller instead of the tillers with 1.660metre tubes as some 1900 boats before had been supplied with. This was around sail number 1938 onwards. We complained to the Laser centre and got those owners who had the boats affected and were racing to cut down their tillers to the 1.660M. Now as you know as a class we are less rigorous about scrutinneering small details of the boat than the Dart 18 class but the general principles still apply.
Cheers
Bob